Curse

quanta_nomad · Mar 10, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

I've been doing some VQ and HM missions with Arcane Echo/SS/Enfeebling blood necro bar just to try out the necro profession. I donno if any human player would want to run a MM (I know I don't unless pug's pressure me!). So far with these three skills I seem to own everything in HM. I don't even have three necro heroes yet! I use Olias as MM, Gwen as VoR/Rupter and Ogden as a healer!

Hence the obvious question, is there any other necro build that is as much effective as this SS nuking? I'm sure there are builds that might be good for necromancers (PvX seem to have tons of those for necros) but are they AS effective as this one? (why use a subpar build in pve?) Or am I doomed to run the same bar I got when I was level 16. If so, then I donno if playing a necro will be much of a fun.

Lot of ppl seem to be excited about MoP/AP/EVAS but is it as effective as SS nuking? What about that IV bar some ppl love?

Moloch Vein · Mar 10, 2009, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Icy Veins bars are all subpar; Mark of Pain/AP bars make SS look like a peashooter.

Don't know why I post this, I must be bored.

Alex Dimitri · Mar 10, 2009, 11:49 AM // 11:49

It depends much of what u are going for, SS is very good all around skill but it is not only good Necro elite! U can do good with blood builds and also u can make pretty decent death builds without being an MM (i don`t like playing MM, i kind of suck there :P ).
Playing Necro is way more fun than playing assa or warr (my opinion

) !

Xenomortis · Mar 10, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

[Icy Veins] is crap.

[Spiteful Spirit] works and is a solid choice, but it is slow and requires the enemy to be attacking or casting to do damage, which is bad. In some of the harder areas, you'll probably start to feel these flaws.

[Assassin's Promise] coupled with stuff like [Mark of Pain] and the stupid PvE skills such as [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support], rips through mobs faster than anything else that you could bring to the party.

Death magic outside of being a MM/MB means you'll be dealing a lot of Cold Damage probably, which is crap in HM. There is some armour ignoring damage, but it's all inferior to anything in the Curses line.
Blood magic is just bad. It's too specific for general party support and too weak as a damage line (which is ironic, because it contains the most direct damage skills in any necro line).

TheodenKing · Mar 10, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Xenomortis sums it up pretty well, though I would say Blood+Curse is real good if your party is full of physicals. ([order of pain]+[mark of pain]). Also, SS sucks vs strong single targets... better off with [spoil victor] or another such skillbar.

Xenomortis · Mar 10, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

Xenomortis sums it up pretty well, though I would say Blood+Curse is real good if your party is full of physicals. ([order of pain]+[mark of pain]). Also, SS sucks vs strong single targets... better off with [spoil victor] or another such skillbar.

But you wouldn't want to run Orders in a general PvE environment - I generally make a comment about Blood magic being a little too specific for general use.

Carinae · Mar 10, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I enjoy running MM. It's a acquired taste I suppose. But like most builds, a human MM can run rings around a hero MM.

snaek · Mar 10, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

i love mm...well not so much anymore since the minion cap. there was just this pure joy in being able to maintain hordes and hordes of minions. now its just bout putting 10 minions to their most effectiveness which isn't as fun because you start to focus on supporting minions rather than making minions.

try running a pure [animate bone fiend] army. i find those more fun than your typical body blockers or bomber mm builds.

[icy veins] can work as the trigger hex for [discord (pve)]. on its own, its pretty useless.

infusco · Mar 10, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

You need a heavily physical team (warriors, assassins, rangers) for an Orders build to be effective ... which unfortunately these days is virtually unheard of outside of Tombs.

Personally, I'm pretty fed up spending my evenings arcane-echoing SS, but I will concede that it is quite effective when mobs are clustered up. Please note that Feast of Corruption is more effective for this purpose if you have a group composed of AOE heavies, such as RoJ nukers. SS would simply take too long to set up properly when you can hit those bunched up mobs for 120+ unsoakable damage within 3 seconds. SS may be safer, mind you, in a pick up group with questionable tanking as it's better suited to split groups of mobs (i.e when shit hits the fan).

I'm personally fond of Icy Veins when playing with heroes and henchies as it's a fast cast fast recharge spell that both hits initially and does AOE when the mob dies ... plus it fulfills a condition for using Necrosis, which is just an amazing single target attack spell

Just don't rely on Icy Veins when you have a group with a competent tank as you have better AOE elites available to you. Especially not in Hard Mode.

Aside from MMing, Death can be used for some serious degen pressure, but since degen pips are limited to 10 (20 hp/second), it can still be outdamaged by SS in this respect. You can also combine Putrid Bile with Icy Veins to mix some AOE into that. And you can also add in Putrid Explosion for some heavy AOE damage once mobs start dying. Just don't bring the latter if you have a minion bomber hero as they depend on corpses themselves. They are nothing short of sensational and can MM far far better than players can.

Blood Magic is solid ... but unfortunately, in our day of highly optimized team builds, energy and health support is frowned upon by the Uber-Damage crowd who don't see anything outside of a Monk as a defensive necessity. And in terms of damage output, Blood Magic cannot compete with Curses or MMs. Mind you, that being said, *nothing* compares to Spoil Victor when it comes to end-game boss fights. Fighting Shiro practically demands it.

Xenomortis · Mar 10, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

I enjoy running MM. It's a acquired taste I suppose. But like most builds, a human MM can run rings around a hero MM.

Humans can run [Order of Undeath] so much better than heroes can too.
MM is a nice change of pace, but can feel a little unrewarding - thankfully OoU usually results in satisfaction.

If you're fed up of running SS, then try the AP-MoP nuker build or a Discord team.

As the trigger hex for Discord, AP works better to IV. With AP you can recharge lots of other things too - EV Sin Support, Mark of Pain etc.

People often praise IV for it's AoE properties, but as an elite hex it's still beaten by other things. Even in a hex nuking build thing using Putrid Bile and the like, you'll probably be better off using a different elite.

Chthon · Mar 11, 2009, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

[Icy Veins] is crap.

Ding! That's correct.

Quote:

[Spiteful Spirit] works and is a solid choice, but it is slow and requires the enemy to be attacking or casting to do damage, which is bad.

Ding! Also correct.

Quote:

[Assassin's Promise] coupled with stuff like [Mark of Pain] and the stupid PvE skills such as [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support], rips through mobs faster than anything else that you could bring to the party.

Eh.. half correct. AP-MoP is definitely one of the top builds a necro can bring to the party. However, I'd say that [animate bone fiend][order of undeath][ebon battle standard of honor] can at least approach it in killing power. Better yet, the two build can feed off each other.

Quote:

Death magic outside of being a MM/MB means you'll be dealing a lot of Cold Damage probably, which is crap in HM.

Ding! Correct again.

Quote:

Blood magic is just bad.

Eh.. I think Orders + Dark Fury is well worth it for a physical-heavy team. But that's not enough for a build. You end up having to abuse PvE skills and/or your secondary to fill out a bar since the blood line is so shallow.

_Nihilist_ · Mar 11, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

I have taken to running a Blood Necro Hero equipped with [[Spoil [email protected]] all the time now.

Why, you ask? Because I also carry a Minion Bomber Hero, and Bone Minions have ridiculously low health. Since the Minions love to take it upon themselves to swarm whoever has been called, it's a pretty fair shot that they are going to take some heat, and when they do, SV starts tearing shit up.

If I am in a physical-heavy team, OoV wins out for me. My physicals dealing +17 armor-ignoring lifesteal per hit? Yes, please. I'd go with OoP and Dark Fury, but my physicals are mostly minions, or B/S Rangers, so they don't need the extra adrenaline gain, and I can deal with less sac.

draxynnic · Mar 12, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quick nitpick: OotV doesn't actually work on minions - they aren't counted as part of your party. To affect minions, you need something that either specifically affects them, or that affects 'allies'.

gunster · Mar 12, 2009, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Run an AP MoP Nuker....

ping a target, hexes, assassin' promise, vanguard sin, get ur frontline to attack, target dies, rinse and repeat.

[Mark of Pain][Barbs][Rigor Mortis][Assassin's Promise][Finish Him!][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][You Move Like a Dwarf!], then optional slot for rez or utility: i.e. [Sunspear Rebirth Signet] or [Technobabble]

TheOrangeFalcon · Mar 12, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunster

[Mark of Pain][Barbs][Rigor Mortis][Assassin's Promise][Finish Him!][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][You Move Like a Dwarf!], then optional slot for rez or utility: i.e. [Sunspear Rebirth Signet] or [Technobabble]

You can run 4 PvE skills? That's 1337. If you're switch out any of the first three, I'd say YMLAD for Technobable. Sin and Finish Him are too good not to take and SSRB sig isn't good enough for a slot on a bar like that. Other than that, [enfeebling blood] always makes a nice choice imo.